The Answer?

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I almost passed this article by because I thought it was going to be just another “feel good” article about bullying with no real solutions. I was wrong…

In this post-Columbine, zero-tolerance world, Izzy Kalman is something of a revolutionary. He agrees that bullying is a big problem. But he contends that getting rid of bullies is not the solution (and, in fact, is not even possible). What we have to do, he says, is get rid of victims.

“People have a knee-jerk reaction when they hear that,” said Kalman over lunch last month, while he was in West Palm Beach leading a seminar for school counselors and other mental health professionals. “They say I’m blaming the victims. I’m not blaming the victims, but I am saying that they are the ones who have the problem. Bullies don’t have the problem. They aren’t the ones committing suicide and shooting up schools. Those are the victims, and those are the ones whose behavior we need to change.”

Kalman, who spent 26 years as a school psychologist and private psychotherapist, wants to make something clear. He is not saying bullying is good. He’s saying it’s inevitable, a natural byproduct of human nature. He’s also saying that, to the extent it helps teach kids resilience and self-sufficiency, it’s useful. And he’s saying that, unless it causes physical harm, it’s also legal, protected under the Constitution.

“Our Constitution guarantees the right to free speech,” he says. “And that means the right to tell someone they are a big, fat idiot if we want to. Kids today are growing up with the idea that nobody can ever say anything mean to them. We are raising a generation of emotional marshmallows. We’re promoting learned helplessness. And I am really concerned that when these kids grow up, they are going to be unable to handle adversity of any kind, because we learn to handle adversity from dealing with the fairly simple difficulties of childhood.”

Like being called a big, fat idiot by the class bully.

Read the rest of the article. It’s definitely worth it.

Comments

38 responses to “The Answer?”

April 20, 2006

Joker

He’s right.

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April 20, 2006

Jim

We are raising a generation of emotional marshmallows

Best line EVER

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April 20, 2006

anomynous

We are in a generation of adult emotional marshmellows already!

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April 21, 2006

Gina

I don’t remember much about my younger school years but one thing that vividly sticks out in my mind is a poster on my 3rd grade teachers wall that said “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Now has this philosophy been thrown out the window because it is a Bible verse or has this motto been rewritten to say “Do unto others before they can do unto you first”?

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April 21, 2006

Jess

Izzy Kalzman has it so right. Yeah, it’s totally normal to relentlessly bully someone physically and emotionally day-in-day out without feeling any remorse. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people who do that. They have no deep-rooted psychological problems at all. It’s totally ludicrous that kids get upset over this. How the hell could they? It is a normal part of growing up to be told you are worthless and disgusting every day. Kids need to accept they are disgusting and worthless and move on. There’s something seriously wrong with kids who can’t handle 7 hours a day, 5 days a week for 4 years (Or more) of continual abuse. They need to be locked up in mental institutions and studied closely over a long period of time by psychologists, because psychologists have all the answers to life’s questions. Give it a fancy psychobabble label and the solutions to all problems are there! Maybe Izzy should tell bullied kids to consider suicide – there’s no reason for them to live when they are the cause of their own problems. Maybe if they weren’t so uncool and dressed better, people wouldn’t pick on them. Izzy should make a list of how to dress, and what music to listen to, and how to look better so kids aren’t picked on. Because you know, kids who get picked on just love the feeling of it, and always are deserving of it. They always try really hard to be picked on, don’t you know? If they changed, people wouldn’t be mean to them. Bullies would so not find another small insignificant thing to pick on kids about. Bullies are wonderful, you know? Everyone should be one.

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April 21, 2006

Trench

Did you read the whole article?

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April 21, 2006

Gina

I read the whole article and this is a prime reason I pulled my kids from public school. Why should I have to raise my kids to be hardened little assholes just to get an education?

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April 21, 2006

Jim

not hardened assholes, just not pussys either.

The point of what Izzy said, is that kids are going to be bullied, but they don’t have to take it.

Jess just decided that because Izzy is telling people that the parents should be teaching their kids how to deal with situations like bullying… that means that its the victims fault.

I don’t know about you, Gina, but it is obvious that Jess did not read any of the article.

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April 21, 2006

Jim

Author: anomynous
Comment:
We are in a generation of adult emotional marshmellows already!

While your post was deleted for whatever reason… you are not too far off. The problem is the baby boomers (our parents) were a bunch of druggie half wits in the 60s. they decided that hugs were the best medicine over the beatings their parents gave them… they get old enough to effect the law and create things like the crazy abuse laws against parents we have today. My generation has their hands tied in many cases -or- they just don’t give a shit because we were doing drugs and fucking everything in site in the 80s… thinking we knew it all and not considering what our adulthood would be like.

Now !! it is worse, because my generation is telling the world that hugs are not enough… now language is an issue, we have to worry about EVERYONES feelings and make sure that nothing we do can be offensive.

But the thing is… you HAVE to hurt people’s feelings sometimes. People who are used to having their asses wiped for them tend to think you are out for their world only. This world is to tough to worry about everyone. its hard enough worrying about your own family never mind the dip shits next door, down the block, two states over and in other nations.

In the 80’s we wanted to feed all of Ethiopia, and we fucking failed. The reason is because we just cant help the whole world. Sometimes Ethiopia needs to get off their asses and feed their damn selves.

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April 21, 2006

Jess

Yes, Trench, I read the whole article. And if that’s all you had to say, I think I “owned” you pretty damn good.

I find it hilarious how you can’t even defend yourself when someone challenges you. You know what Izzy means. Don’t deny what he’s trying to say, because you don’t want to lose your fanbase (Of Trench-mutants, nonetheless)

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April 21, 2006

Trench

Well Jess, your comment made it seem like you didn’t read the article at all. I guess you just didn’t understand it.

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April 21, 2006

Jim

No moron… if you read the article you would have noticed that Izzy isn’t saying anything like you are accusing him of.

Bullying hasn’t stopped with the anti-bullying policies enacted by many schools after Columbine, says Kalman. And it never will stop, he says, until the victims — one by one — stop it.

Does that sound like punish the victims ?

He is telling you that if you don’t want to be a victim… fucking don’t be. You don’t have to be a victim, you don’t have to let bullies have power over you… take that power away, and the bullies also… go away.

But, you read the article so you probably knew that.

oh, do people even say “I owned you” anymore ?

idiot 🙄

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April 21, 2006

Jim

Trench… you are getting to nice in your old age 😆

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April 21, 2006

Trench

No sense wasting my energy on the unenlightened. 😆

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April 21, 2006

Jim

The dumber they are, the madder they get me.

I deal better with the psycho mutants better than the idiot savants. To me its more annoying to have some nitwit come on, screaming his/her opinion, and the best they got going on is grammar and spelling.

this dummy is swearing she read the article, but it is obvious she just read INTO it.

If that’s all it takes to form an intelligible opinion… I’m reading INTO post number 5 and what I see is “I’m a moron” over and over.

damn… it does work 😆

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April 23, 2006

ZappaCrappa

I’m trying to remember why I stopped coming here and getting mad when I did rememeber…oh yeah…thank for reminding me Jess…you are another member of generation marshallow. How do you plan on dealing with the real world?

After this reminder…ZappaCrappa is out and heading for more humorous and less “touchy feely” climes. All this talk about bullying is really making me want to go kick some nerd’s/goth’s/someone who isn’t athletic ass 😆

Sincerely,
ZappaCrappa
Trench-mutant fan #1

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April 24, 2006

Gina

No wonder kids are so messed up. You have psychologists telling a 4 foot tall kid his has the ability to stand up to a 6 foot tall kid and that if he doesn’t its his fault and he is the one with the problem:idea:

😆

The only sure fire way to solve this problem is take back your birth given right and pull your kids from Godless doctrines that can’t figure out what the hell they are going to teach from year to year, much less how to deal with behavior and punishment.

As a homeschool mom I get asked weekly “what about socialization”? Funny, my mom always told me growing up “I’m not sending you to school to socialize”….my my how the principles of raising children change so quickly. I simply tell them if I wanted to recreate public school socialization it would be very simple. I would just scedule in an hour each week to corner them in the bathroom and grab them by the hair, bash their head against the wall and steal their lunch money…..then proceed to tell them that their clothes suck, they suck, and spend the remainder of the hour breaking them spiritualy, mentally, and emotionally. 😆

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April 24, 2006

Michelle

Absolutely. Gina~I agree. I pulled my girls out at the begining if the year and enrolled them in the local college. They can finish their HS education and get their GED without the constant drug/sex/violence crap that surrounds the public school system down here. And I believe it wil make their transition to college easier, they know the campus, teachers, ect.. It was the only correct solution for the situation.

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April 24, 2006

Gina

One more great aspect of homeschooling is I don’t buy into the “grade system”. I prefer the “master it” system. In other words, if they aren’t getting 2nd grade math 100%, then we work on it until it is mastered. They pass kids now as long as they are getting 70% or above and lets face if, if a child can not master 2nd grade math how the hell do you expect them to get 3rd grade and on and on……

Instead of “no child left behind” its a “nation left behind” and todays youth is nothing more than a sick science experiment with a hefty price tag attached.

One more aspect to look at is the cost of education. Every year someone comes out with the latest and greatest method of teaching kids and with it comes a nice little price tag to spend all those tax dollars on. But really, when has the meaning of a noun changed? 2 + 2 still = 4 last I checked….So, my kids text books may be last years throw aways…still does the job. Besides, you can dress it up and package it all bright and pretty, but it really does not a damn bit of good if the people presenting it to the kids have lost their passion behind it.

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April 24, 2006

Jim

While I agree with you on the “no child left behind” crap. You are wrong about the 4 foot tall kid besting a 6 foot tall kid.

Height and weight have NOTHING to do with self defence. To say that those things matter is like saying the following also make a difference in self defence. Age, GPA, the mode of transportation you use, how long your toes are, if you bite your fingernails or not, how many times you sneeze in a day, what makes you sneeze, your penmanship (is this getting silly enough for you?).

The problem isn’t the victim being at fault, its parents like you who let your kid be a victim. and what do you want to do about it ? You want to remove other kids from the school system for doing what has been done since kids first gathered together in groups. They pick on each other, they tease, they exclude and are fucking mean about it. But the excluded are NOT excluded from everything… there is always a group that will take them.

When I was a kid, the jocks didn’t hang out with the nerds… each had their own groups and they liked it just fine that way. the fat kids didn’t make the basketball team, the dirt-bags (headbangers, metal-heads -or- whatever you call them) didn’t join up in the chess club and so on and so forth. That’s the way it always was and that’s the way it is.

Not to mention the fact that, pack of wolves that kids are, also act like a pack of wolves and it only takes beating the alpha wolf to become alpha wolf. A great wrestler once said…

“In order to be the man, you have to beat the man”

One other thing…
Being someone with handicaps, I know this for a fact but you as a parent have to learn that NOT ALL KIDS ARE EQUAL. whether you like it or not… the kid with two different size legs, a stump for a foot and a back shaped like a “Q” does NOT make it into sports.
More important than this is the fact that the kids know this better than you do.

I hate to shit on you, because you really seem like a nice person, but the reason home school is not good is because your kid is not learning the diversity that school teaches kids. Your kid is only learning that a thousand chances is fine, and the large shadow looming over him is only good ole momma… never ever danger.

Too much safety is far worse than too much danger.

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April 24, 2006

Gina

“In order to be the man, you have to beat the man”
….yeah…key word here…..MAN. And how many grown MEN do you know that go around picking on other grown MEN? Nevermind. You answered that for me…..one evidently. The difference between a child and a man is a man is working with bills to pay and in many cases kids to feed. A grown MAN knows that if he choses to go head to head in a physical battle with another MAN the result is hospital bills (win or loose) and possible consequence of jail time, not to mention possible lose of time from work. “A MAN chooses his battles wisely”. Point is you just can’t go around beating up people for pissing you off at ANY age. No matter how “big” or “bad” you are. I agree that PASSION accounts for the fight in a person, but you don’t learn this “just cause mama says so”….it comes with time, age, and maturity. How do I know? At 4’11” I have always had the fight in me, it just took having kids to bring on the PASSION.

Now, as far as your ASSumption that I am “overshadowing” or “protecting” my kids….well, perhaps that depends on how you want to look at it. I say a prayer everyday that my send my kids off to play with our 7 horses weighing in 1500 pounds + or to play in a creek known to draw poisonous snakes…THAT is danger. Sending my kids off to a pack of hungry wolfs is stupidity. And expecting my kids to learn to walk the way of our beliefs (yes, I am a Christian) in a Godless doctrine is ignorance. Besides, I am thier MOTHER….THATS MY JOB! If more mothers DID their job, we wouldn’t be having to come up with an “answer” to school shootings now would we?

I agree kids are like wolfes as you compared them to. Anytime a new horse is introduced to our herd a fight ensues and “pecking order” is established. One thing though, about the only animal I would willing compare MY children to is perhaps a lamb. But hey, to each his/her own.

When I was a kid people had their groups as well. Difference was nobody had my space accounts where they could spew nonsense and immaturity. And though many of the “rednecks” had guns openly displayed in the back of their trucks, nobody ever went to their truck and got them and shot up the school….

And your right, I am a nice person….hell, I am an extremely nice person. So as far as “shitting” on me….whatever the hell that means anyway….don’t flatter yourself. Its not like I woke up one day and said “gee, I think I will pull my kids from school and put their education at the mercy of what-will-be-will-be”….far from it friend.

You have a nice evening!:smile:

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April 24, 2006

Gina

Oh…..and as far as this “diversity” bullshit. We just got back from a evening of softball practice for my husband with our church. My kids played with white kids, black kids, mixed kids, kids of former junkies, kids in foster care from parents of junkies, kids that have survived cancer, etc….you get the point. Thing is, this environment was observed by parents equally caring and loving of how their kids behave and not at the mercy of a person getting paid to babysit a village.

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April 24, 2006

Jim

For starters, I am not claiming your kids need to pick a fight with anyone who makes them mad… THAT would be taking on a bully role, and that is not the point to all this.

The kid needs to learn to defend him/herself so in the cases of physical attack… he/she can.
When it comes to verbal abuse, which is 90% of bullying anyway, they need to learn that words mean shit.
Whatever happened to “sticks and stones” ?

Your “man” point is duly noted, but at the same time, kids are in a rougher environment than adults. Kids are savage at times and the weaker ones will only succumb to torture if they let it happen.

I am glad, however, that you are aware that it is YOUR job to raise YOUR kids. Your lamb theory is way off base however.
Lambs are stupid, inept, moronic at best. You being a church goer should know that Jesus referred to his people as sheep because people tend to be incredibly dumb. If one jumps off a cliff, hundreds will follow blindly. It takes a sheppard to guide one and the rest will follow quite well.

Do you really think kids follow each other to that extent ?

I myself, do not. Kids group in small packs so they can not only belong, but be closer to the top of their group’s food chain.

Kids are nothing like sheep at all… hence, why I used the wolf as my basis for childhood behavior.

Now if you have your kids playing with animals that can kill them at anytime. Brainless, semi trained creatures who in a single kick or throw can leave them handicapped or dead. and even worse in the danger of poisonous snakes… why home school ?
I know the answer… I’m just waiting for you to be honest about it now. We all know it has nothing to do with school shootings because it is far more likely your kids will succumb to a rattlesnake bite or a kick to the head from a fair amount of horses.

Your gonna have to do better than your church group to prove to me your kids have a clue about worldly diversity too. If you group a bunch of people together who all have the same interests the only diversity you are going to conjure up is small differences of opinion. and that, my dear, is far from diversity.

Why don’t you sit your kid with people from differing Christian groups and see how he/she fairs. Get a baptist, a Methodist, a born again, a catholic… fill in the blanks, I think you get the point. then get em started on baptism or speaking in tongues. I have personally seen what that sort of thing does to kids who have had nothing but church upbringing. They would be better off getting called fat or stupid at school. Oh, but they get that at church too… because kids are cruel everywhere. Even the pastor’s kid is an evil little bastard, usually more so than the rest. ain’t it funny that way ?

Hey if you really want to have fun throw some Jehovah’s Witnesses in the mix and see if your kid can convert them.

Pray all you want, your kids are going to deal with the world one way or another. better they are prepared for it now. Especially since school is NOT the only place on earth that some scumbag can come in and shoot them. that can happen at home, at work, on the horse, where ever, when ever… its called the shitty world we live in. running and hiding behind Jesus will only help AFTER your dead

…I guess 🙄

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April 25, 2006

Gina

I am not giving you the pleasure of what religion I practice other than the fact I gave before…I am a Christian. I am not here to enlighten you to the light of Jesus. So I am going to ignore the jabs at religion and tolerate your ignorance on the subject…..

My lamb theory sticks. Though I do not consider my kids to be dumb or moronic, I am well aware that they need guidence in life….hence, call me the “sheppard”:wink: I don’t believe that gathering in groups in school in order to “maintain” is healthy. I refer to them as lambs because they are 5 &amp 8, sweet and innocent babies. If I am a bad or selfish person for doing what I feel as my calling, my duty as a mother, to keep them sweet and innocent as long as possible….so be it…

As far as my kids animals go….its called a farm, perhaps you learned about them in public school?

And I don’t have to prove a damn thing to you:lol: I don’t have to prove to you or to the state or to the government a damn thing about what I am teaching my children or doing with my children because I, like my children will, know my constitutional rights.:mrgreen:

Perhaps instead of focusing on the things we disagree on you should focus more on the things we do agree on like the nation left behind “crap” you refered to it as. But then, perhaps this is your public school showing.

Perhaps…just perhaps…you need to educate yourself to the benefits and the great leaders of the world that have come from homeschooling. Perhaps you need to look up how homeschooled kids score on National Standardized Tests vs. how public school kids add up. Then perhaps you can come up with an answer as to why America ranks 18th out of 24 nations in education.

I mean after all, it is all about education, right? Not sure about you but quite frankly I left all that high school crap at the door. As an adult I don’t have to surround myself with people “like me” to fit in. I surround myself with people “like me” because…..well I like them.:shock:

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April 25, 2006

Gina

And for the record….I don’t expect my kids to go forth and convert anybody. I hear the arguement from many Christians that they send their kids to school in order to be salt and light. I don’t believe this is the plan Jesus had at all for little children. After all, when he said the words about going and being salt and light he was talking to group of grown men. However, the Bible (and again being I am a Believer) says to raise your children to walk in the Lord.

I will agree with you on one point…people are stupid by nature. Any person who has actually read the Bible can see that. I mean miracle after miracle was performed (and still is today, though 99% of the time it is not perceived as a miracle) and people still doubted just as they still doubt today.

I do not shield my kids from learning of other religions. They laughed like crazy when I explained to them how Hindu’s believe in reincarnation when we did a study on India. Yet they have been taught the tolerance to find the beauty in the flowers and decorations in thier celebrations.

However, for you to tell me that kids are mean and that is the way it is and I have to deal with it? Do what? It may not have much of an impact on my kids right now but down the road the fact that they have parents that are willing to buck the system and go against the norm will set far more of an example upon them than getting an opportunity to “be like everyone else”. After, we….you and me…know what happens in reality to everyone else now don’t we…

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April 25, 2006

Gina

Out of sheer curiosity today I had my 8 yo look up the definition of the words “sheep” and “wolf”. This is what Websters had to say in using these in pertaining to people:

Sheep: a timid or defenseless person.

Wolf: a fierce or destructive person.

Children are born defenseless…society brings out the destructive.

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April 25, 2006

Jim

OK, but what about when they are adults ? mean kids grow up into mean adults (I know you love me 😉 )

Are they to be home employed too ?

Oh they can run the family farm.

OK all breaking your chops aside, you are right… we have plenty we do agree on, but this discussion was about “the answer” for the bully problems. So far all you contributed to this was basically ‘get rid of the bullies’ which is not even possible.
I agree with Izzy Kalman because kids NEED to learn that they DON’T have to be a victim… that’s it.

as for Christianity, my lack of faith in that phony book you call bible and the lies therein from Adam to Jesus does not equate me to “ignorant on the subject”. I am quite well educated on the subject and would be happy to test your faith with real hardcore facts.

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April 25, 2006

Trench

Easy there cowboy. Remember, not all of us believe in the literal word for word meaning of The Bible.

Plus we’re getting way off topic.

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April 25, 2006

Jim

Gina.. where in the blue hell do you have your kids looking up words ?

What dictionary defines a wolf as “a fierce or destructive person.” ?
is that from one of your wacky bible based books ?

Cambridge (a reputable dictionary) even has a “man based” definition. read it for yourself.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/results.asp?searchword=wolf&ampx=0&ampy=0

…and as for sheep
“a farm animal with thick wool, that eats grass and is kept for its wool, skin and meat:”

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=72629&ampdict=CALD

I’d thank you to use REAL info and not your stupid religion bias based garbage when you argue.

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April 25, 2006

Jim

Yeah, I know it Trench, But no matter how hard I push back to the subject it winds up in the small minded world of the nitwit I argue with.

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April 25, 2006

Gina

Well, Jim…the dictionary I use is The Merriam-Webster Dictionary…the actual book (not an internet based one). You can pick one up for less than $5 at most grocery stores. I do however want my kids to learn to actually “write” out a thought before they go straight to typing illiterate spew on places like my space….if ya know what I mean. I actually seen a my space once of a 12th grade girl that aside from the fact she was clothed in nothing more than panties and a bra her opening line said and I swear this is exact and not a typo “I cant wate to go to callege”…:lol:or:cry:…take your pick. Oh and btw…your definition was #1….but did your public school not teach you that a word can have more than one meaning?

Now I respect your right to believe whatever you feel and I respect your right to teach YOUR children whatever you feel. However, don’t tread on me.

All religion aside….although homeschooling may not solve the bullying problem….according to you the world is shit and there is no solving it anyway….but homeschooling is a definate alternative to having to “deal” with it.

And btw, I am not raising “employees”….again that is a public school agenda. 🙄

And as far as “testing” my faith…hahaha…Satan does that plenty enough friend. But plug away if you wish.:lol:

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April 25, 2006

Jim

your definition was #1….but did your public school not teach you that a word can have more than one meaning?

I believe I gave you the listing of all definitions for Wolf, while only quoting one from sheep.

according to you the world is shit and there is no solving it anyway…
Finally… you get the point.

.but homeschooling is a definate alternative to having to “deal” with it.

-or- avoid it for 18 years

And btw, I am not raising “employees”….again that is a public school agenda.

I don’t have an agenda, I am just pointing out that if they are to be kept from the woes of public school, you may as well lock em up till death. They are going to have to face the world someday, better to be prepared early (or so I think).

nevertheless, we have wondered way off topic and I am tired of taking part in that. Respond all you wish… this is my last off topic post in this thread.

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April 25, 2006

Gina

😆

Why oh why would I think YOU personally are behind the agenda….unless of course you are like a principal or superintendent or something?

And keeping them from what exactly? Learning how to smoke between classes? (God, knows I mastered that one in school) Keeping them from turning into bitter, illiterate, morons that get to look foward to going out to be “employees” with other bitter, illiterate morons? I don’t get what it is exactly you think is so wonderful that they are missing? I mean seriously I appreciate the genuine concern you express for my kids. But quite frankly this board is full of stories about kids that could use that concern a wee bit more than my kids.

And good, I am glad this is over….this has been a shitty way to start out our Spring Break. I can finally finish my flower bed and garden without….what will ol’ Jim say next….

Have a good one…..

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May 17, 2006

Gabriella

America thrives off victimization. People would rather whine about their pitifulness, rather than take a stand against that which they complain about.

The real world does indeed have bullies, only in more clever forms.
_______________
GabriellA

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May 17, 2006

Jim

No, America thrives off the lives of others. Then they whine about how things re just not how they want it.

we are a nation of spoiled, fat losers who would rather cry and cower in a corner than kick a little ass and reward ourselves with a steak. THEN… while in the corner we bitch about the people who are not in the corner with us. 🙄 I really hate this country

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May 28, 2013

Anon

You and Izzy are just as bad as the bullies who you support. Do you jack off to him and other bully enablers? I bet that you an’ him are horny for each other. Maybe that’s why you have wet dreams about him.

If you want Izzy and you to fuck the shit out of each other, be my guest. But don’t blame me if you suffer the consequences.

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1. May 29, 2013
  
  Trench Reynolds
  
  Come back when you can talk like an adult junior.
  
  Reply
2. May 30, 2013
  
  RadioChuck
  
  Wow, and it only took you 6 years to come up w/that…I don’t agree w/everything Kalman’s saying here, but kinda weird how that’s the first place your mind went to. Anything you’d like to share w/the class? LOL
  
  Reply