Student with Asperger Syndrome Charged in Murder:
This is a piece from NPR about how much a part Asperger’s Syndrome is playing in the murder of James Alenson by Asperger’s patient John Odgren. What I found interesting about this piece is that some parents of Asperger’s kids are horrified that Odgren’s defense attorney is using Asperger’s as a defense. It’s a very good listen.
Thanks to Dr. Feste for the link.
School transfer of accused teen eyed:
This is an article that chronicles the school history of Lincoln-Sudbury High stabbing suspect John Odgren. According to the article, he attended 5 schools in five years, which also, according to the article, is not very conducive to an Asperger’s patient.
Psychiatrists say children with Asperger’s often struggle with school transitions, and a move to a large public school with 1,600 students would not be easy. Youngsters with Asperger’s typically have poor social skills.
“It’s difficult for these people to accept changes,” said Mohammad Ghaziuddin, a child psychiatrist at the University of Michigan and a specialist in Asperger’s. “They are used to having their own schedule, their own routines. It’s their desire for sameness.”
At this point, it’s unknown why all those transfers took place. One of the schools said that anyone who has a tendency towards violence would not be allowed to remain there. Lincoln-Sudbury schools are also saying that records provided to them were missing documents that should have contained information regarding Odgren’s past “explosive episodes”.
Was he shuffled from school to school because of his behavior? Or could it have been parental impatience? Were they possibly not satisfied with the pace he was progressing and held the schools responsible? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Principal: No Evidence Slain Teen Knew Attacker:
The principal of Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School, John M. Ritchie, addressed a group of parents at the school auditorium Thursday night. He stated that there was no pre-existing relationship between accused killer John Odgren and his victim James Alenson. So all of those claiming bullying as Odgren’s motive can stick that in your crack pipes.
Now it says the stabbing started as an altercation. How do we know that John Odgren didn’t start that altercation? If he’s going to claim that Asperger’s caused him to kill James Alenson the prosecution can also claim that it caused him to kill James Alenson unprovoked.
An insanity plea can work both ways.
I had asked another blogging doctor about Asperger’s as a murder defense in the case of John Odgren. I e-mailed Dr. Feste of Illyria and this is what he had to say. Again, nothing has been edited…
One would think that a 16-year-old with such a diagnosis would not be allowed to have a knife collection; obviously parents have poor insight into the problem…. oftentimes the parents have just as many issues. If I were the supreme authority on truth, justice and all things imperial (I should be provided with such responsibilities), I would not incarcerate the individual, since the explosive outbursts are a consequence of his disease, but I would not let him roam free, especially with such parents….. it seems a good chunk of modern society is incapable of reasonable parenting, and thus the murderous 16-year-old should be under constant supervision and a controlled environment until there is proof that he will not repeat his offense. Parents need a good whack in the head, though.
With all the talk about Asperger’s Syndrome on this site lately because of the Lincoln-Sudbury High stabbing, I decided to get a professional opinion. Over the weekend, I e-mailed Dr. Scott from Polite Dissent and asked him his opinion about Asperger’s being used as a murder defense. This was his reply. Nothing has been edited.
There’s no easy answer. Some people with Asperger’s are all but autistic, others are fully functional, most fall somewhere in between. A person who attends high school, admits to the deed, and apologizes strikes me as someone who is pretty functional, and knows right from wrong.
That being said, impulse control problems are common in people with Asperger’s. May seem to lack the ‘maybe this isn’t the right thing to do’ switch between anger and action.
As an aside, whenever I hear that someone has Asperger’s — be they a patient of mine, or someone on the news, I wonder where they received their diagnosis. About half the people seem to be self-diagnosed (or ‘mother diagnosed’) because they think it fits, and it ‘sounds right’ and they now have an excuse for some of their choices (it wasn’t me, it was the Asperger’s). I never trust these diagnoses. Asperger’s is a poorly defined condition that is difficult to diagnose; it takes hours of psychological testing and interviewing for a correct diagnose; it takes a specialist. Without one of those doing the diagnosing, I don’t believe the diagnosis.
If you have an opinion about this, post it in the comments here. Don’t harass Dr. Scott at his site. He was merely doing me a favor.
Accused killer boasted of vast knife collection:
John Odgren, the suspect in the Lincoln-Sudbury High School stabbing, had previously bragged about his rather extensive knife collection…
John Odgren is a private kid who spent hours exploring the vast woods around his secluded Princeton home, neighbors said, sometimes carrying a machete.
One neighbor said the quiet teen appeared menacing as he stalked along the winding country road with a machete in hand whacking at brush. “He just acted odd,” said the neighbor. “He’d sit in the woods all day. He spent all last summer walking in the woods.”
But another said Odgren seemed like a typical country boy who enjoyed the outdoors: “He didn’t seem like a punk. He didn’t seem like he was too big for his britches. He seemed like a nice kid.”
A student at Sudbury named Julia, who is making a crime film, said Odgren was fascinated by crime. “He said if we needed any props for the movie he had knives,” she said.
For the sake of argument, let’s just say that his Asperger’s is what caused him to kill James Alenson. Then if his parents knew he had a predisposition to fly off the handle, why did they allow him to have a knife collection? Why would you let any 16-year-old have a knife collection, including a machete, anyway?
The article said he was picked on too. I don’t care. I bet James Alenson was picked on too. He was a quiet kid who played the clarinet. You’re going to tell me that no one picked on him?
There’s only one victim here, and his name is James Alenson.
Student charged with murder in fatal stabbing at suburban school:
The name of the suspect of the Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School stabbing has been released. He is 16-year-old John Odgren of Princeton, Mass. He pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder charges yesterday in court. Which I find kind of strange considering that when police arrived Odgren had blood on his hands, proclaiming to police “I did it. I did it”. Odgren also allegedly said, “Is he OK? I don’t want him to die.” Odgren’s attorney, Jonathan Shapiro, is claiming that Odgren has Asperger’s Syndrome and is obviously going to use that as his defense.
“The defendant has a history of fairly serious psychological diagnoses and has also suffered from hyperactivity dysfunction for many years,” Shapiro said. “What is clear is John has a serious disability.”
Asperger’s is not an excuse for murder, and to claim so does a great disservice to people with Asperger’s. If this kind of defense continues, pretty soon people will think that all people with Asperger’s are potential killers. Not only that, but you could also have people who don’t have Asperger’s claiming that they do just so they can use it as a defense.
In Massachusetts, anyone age 14 or older is automatically tried as an adult. Alenson was stabbed in the heart and the abdomen and had cuts on his neck. This was no accident.
Students say assailant talked about murder, bombs:
Classmates of Odgren sure aren’t painting him as some poor misunderstood kid…
Just hours after a classmate was stabbed to death in a school bathroom, two Lincoln-Sudbury High School juniors yesterday said the student now accused of the killing often wore a trench coat to school and talked about murder, forensics and how he wanted to make a bomb.
Brianna Hogge, also a junior at L-S, said “Jack” was “always asking how to get away with killing people and talking about how to make acid to make bombs. He was a really creepy kid.”
Hogge said the student “was always talking about murder, overly interested in forensics and not happy things.”
She said the young man had, in the past, talked to many students and some teachers about his unusual interests.
I wouldn’t be surprised that if his claims of Asperger’s and asking if the victim was ok were all part of a plan to try to get away with murder.
Speaking of the victim…
Kin: Slain boy was ‘all-around good kid’:
James Alenson, the studious, sweet-faced freshman brutally stabbed to death yesterday morning at Lincoln-Sudbury High School, was remembered yesterday as an excellent kid and straight-A student who never made trouble with anyone.
He was just a nice kid. He was just an excellent kid, an all-around good kid, said the murdered boy’s grandfather, James Grotton of New Hampshire.
Alenson, 15, had just moved with his family to Sudbury in September from Natick, where he completed eighth grade at Wilson Middle School. He has a brother and sister. “He’s a straight-A student,” said Eryn Hearn, 14, a Natick High freshman. “We’re all shocked.”
His former classmates remembered Alenson as always toting around his clarinet and keeping to himself. A copy of his 2005 middle school year book shows him smiling with social studies teacher Niall Carey for the annual geography bee.
“You’d see him with (the clarinet) all the time,” said former classmate Anton Wilson, 14, of Natick. “He’s a nice kid who’s quiet.”
Does that sound like a kid who deserved to be stabbed to death?
Relatives sue over shotgun slayings in Aliso Viejo:
Relatives of the victims of gunman William Freund are filing lawsuits against several different parties…
Relatives of a father and daughter who were killed when a neighbor burst into their Aliso Viejo home and opened fire have filed a lawsuit against the killer’s family, the gun dealer who sold the weapon and a support-group website where the gunman had vowed to wage a “terror campaign.”
Denise Smith and her son, Brandon Smith, filed the lawsuit in Orange County Superior Court this week, seeking damages for wrongful death and emotional distress.
The Smiths allege that the gunman’s parents, Karen and Dennis Freund, “permitted” their son to keep a weapon in their home, failed to supervise him, and failed to warn and protect them from their son’s violent nature, according to the lawsuit.
Before the murders, Freund e-mailed and posted comments on the WrongPlanet.net website saying he needed a “real life” friend and said he was contemplating suicide.
He also threatened to start “a terror campaign to hurt those that have hurt me.”
The website serves as a support group for people with Asperger’s syndrome, a neurological disorder, described as a variant of autism, which hampers people’s ability to interact socially. Freund suffered from the disorder.
The suit accused the website of failing to alert police, the victims, Freund’s family or any authorities to prevent harm.
WrongPlanet founder Alexander Plank declined to comment Friday, but during an interview last year, he said volunteer moderators in Virginia tried to call Freund’s parents but were unsuccessful.
The Smiths also accused the Saddleback Valley Gun Center and its owner, George Hueneman, of negligently selling the shotgun to a teenager suffering from a disorder.
Hueneman said he ran a state background check on Freund — which came up clean. He said the state did not log a person’s medical history. He said he was not aware of Freund’s condition and that the law did not require him to determine it before selling a him gun.
I can see the merit in a suit against Freund’s parents, but as far as the gun dealer and WrongPlanet.net are concerned, that part of the lawsuit should be thrown out.
As the article states, the gun dealer followed the law and WrongPlanet tried contacting Freund’s parents. Granted, they should have contacted law enforcement, but it’s not like they sat back and did nothing.
Report: Orange County gunman was social outcast, even on the Internet: (Log in info)
This is basically an article about how the Aliso Viejo shooter William Freund found as little social acceptance on the web as he did in real life…
Freund only opened up on the Internet, which he accessed from his computer-filled bedroom at his parents house. The Times said he played online games, discussed movies and TV shows such as “The Outer Limits,” posted reviews of online businesses, bought and sold video games and paintball supplies on eBay.
He left pleas for friendship on some Web sites.
“I’ve never really had a friend,” Freund wrote in one profile. “I’ve never had someone I can share more intimate conversation with, or just have a good time with.”
In more troubling messages, he discussed guns and, in the weeks before his death, talked about his thoughts of suicide.
“I think the only thing to do is go admit myself to a hospital I feel like I need to kill myself,” he wrote in an Oct. 19 post on wrongplanet.com, a Web site for those with Asperger’s syndrome.
In one message, Freund said he planned to “Start a Terror Campaign To hurt those that have hurt me,” and added: “My future ended some time ago.”
Actually, it’s wrongplanet.net, but anyway, I find it hard to believe he couldn’t even find one friend. Granted he had a disorder that limited his social skills, I find it hard to believe there wasn’t one person out there that he couldn’t find a connection with.
I previously wrote about how some of the moderators at wrongplanet.net tried to contact Freund’s family after posting on their forum. If no one on that forum cared for him, then why did they try to help him?
According to the article, Freund was ridiculed on the Something Awful forums…
In a firearms forum on the Web site somethingawful.com, Freund talked about staging a “Halloween shootout” to get even with pranksters who vandalized his pumpkin last Halloween.
That was met with ridicule.
“I can imagine this mongoloid, sitting on his creaky porch, one strap on his overalls, leaping up and running to the defense of his precious 24-ounce pumpkin,” read one response.
Freund’s comments got him banned from the Web site three days before his rampage.
There are two problems with the internet. There are a lot of idiots who post ridiculous messages on forums just to get attention, and there are people who feel the need to belittle others to make themselves feel good.
So it was hard to tell that this was a credible threat or not. And if Freund was planning on sitting out on his porch with a shotgun, then again it goes to show that the attack was premeditated.
However, the questions still remain why did he target the Smiths, and where did he obtain the shotgun?
The article seems to almost excuse Freund’s killing spree because of the harassment he received combined with his disorder. Asperger’s does not limit your ability to determine what is right and wrong. Freund must have had some other issues. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dug a little deeper and found that he was researching school shootings or other killing sprees.
One of my readers left a comment yesterday letting me know that someone who is believed to be William Freund posted the following message on the Something Awful Forums…
I have a problem. I live in orange county and am trying to buy hevi-shot buckshot, or just winchester if they dont have it. Im 19 Year old And Every shop I go to That has it (grants guns, Saddleback gun store,Yeti gunsmith) Claims its a waste of money and birdshot is better for personal defence.They always ask me why I want to buy hevi shot for my remington 870 home defense,Like im buying some Armour piercing bullets or something.
Shesh!
Is there something against buckshot in the shotgun world, To me bird shot is like less than lethal, you use it if you want your attacked to run around after you shot him, If i have people like last halloween, Bringing out a rifle and shotting my garage and my dads leg (broke the bone and everything) I dont think birdshot will cut it.
Basically IM asking
1. Is birdshot ok for defence
2. Any orange county shop that you know doesnt give you a mouth if you try to buy hevi shot buckshot.
3.Why is buckshot like the new ak-47 barrel, its taboo.
Im currently at work atm, And dont think I could get my dad to show his legs on the internet…So no pics,sorry.
If William Freund, in fact, posted this, it goes to show that the attack was premeditated and not something brought on by his mental illness.
I’m still curious as to why he picked the Smith’s as his victims. Was it random, or was there some sort of connection?
TOF to reader Hugo.