TheTrenchcoat Chronicles

A doctor’s opinion on Asperger’s

Written by

Trench Reynolds

in

With all the talk about Asperger’s Syndrome on this site lately because of the Lincoln-Sudbury High stabbing, I decided to get a professional opinion. Over the weekend I e-mailed Dr. Scott from Polite Dissent and asked him his opinion about Asperger’s being used as a murder defense. This was his reply. Nothing has been edited.

There’s no easy answer. Some people with Asperger’s are all but autistic, others are fully functional, most fall somewhere in between. A person who attends high school, admits to the deed, and apologizes strikes me as someone who is pretty functional, and knows right from wrong.

That being said, impulse control problems are common in people with Asperger’s. May seem to lack the ‘maybe this isn’t the right thing to do’ switch between anger and action.

As an aside, whenever I hear that someone has Asperger’s — be they a patient of mine, or someone on the news, I wonder where they received their diagnosis. About half the people seem to be self-diagnosed (or ‘mother diagnosed’) because they think it fits, and it ‘sounds right’ and they now have an excuse for some of their choices (it wasn’t me, it was the Asperger’s). I never trust these diagnoses. Asperger’s is a poorly defined condition that is difficult to diagnose; it takes hours of psychological testing and interviewing for a correct diagnose; it takes a specialist. Without one of those doing the diagnosing, I don’t believe the diagnosis.

If you have an opinion about this post it in the comments here. Don’t harass Dr. Scott at his site. He was merely doing me a favor.

Comments

23 responses to “A doctor’s opinion on Asperger’s”

  1. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Sounds right to me, he reconizes that many aspies have anger control problems by no fault of their own and I really don’t think this is a fake diagnosis if he recevied sped services, the school was relectant to give them to me with my history of TBI and ODD if nothing else.

    Reply
  2. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    P.S. Assuming the good doc is right and he did just have poor impulse control and does know right from wrong and that what he did was wrong… What sentence do you want to see for him, personally I think thats manslaughter (EED or the like) and hope he will get plenty of treatment and be released so he can help the cops out with his knowledge of forensics.

    Reply
  3. Trench Avatar
    Trench

    Life at least. Again, multiple stab wounds equal murder.

    Reply
  4. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Or EED, you obviously don’t know what it is like to be autistic but you can lose control of your emotions quite easily for “long” (as in around 30 seconds, at least for me) periods of time. Thus you can easily stab someone several times before you even know what you are doing, sadly that kind of defense is rare as it is largely untested. As you have said so many times before aspies consider it insulting as most aspies are quite unviolent (as are most people with other mental illnesses quite often used). It will defientally be interesting to see where this goes.

    Reply
  5. Dana Avatar
    Dana

    If your capable of that type of behaviour without realizing what you are doing, then yeah, you should get locked up for life.

    Violent retardation should not be tolerated.

    Reply
  6. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Could I have your email address? I would love to show every aspie down at wrongplanet.net what you just said, I am sure you can be expecting plenty of hatemail if you are willing to give me your email address. Though like most people who advocate overpunishing children you are probably a coward.

    And just so you know you just said I should be locked in jail for life as I had the anger to do (meaning I was capable) that just not the weapon.

    Reply
  7. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    You are just a wonderful name caller aren’t you Enders.

    Look at you…bullying…name calling….threatening….ALL the things that supposedly “damaged” you. pppbbbbbbbbbbt. Grow a pair of testicals, grow up, get over your rotten school career and get on with your freaking life.

    Or don’t…no loss of sleep for me if you spend the rest of your life as a miserable person stuck in high school.

    Reply
  8. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    I see this as calling a 5’0” adult male short, its a fact, not name calling at all.

    Like I said before ZappaCrappa its people like you that made me afraid to go to school as a child. And no I don’t mean you were a bully (look at who Mystique tells that to and tell me you honestly think she thought Sen. Kelly was a bully as a child).

    If that is too hard for you to comprehend I will put it simply. The bullies are just reacting to their enviorment, if their enviorment excuses their actions (like you clearly seem too saying you can get over 4 years not to mention 12 years of extreme abuse in much less time then that). Thus you made me afraid to go to school as a child, think about that for a second.

    Also she basically insulted every aspie by saying they all deserved life in jail for their actions when they were 16. If I can’t fight back then when can I fight back. I would just love to see what my friend Barb, who had a son punch out a cop (and has an IQ much higher then yours or mine, probably much more potentional too) because he was touched at the wrong time, would have to say about sending kids who lack significant impulse control to jail for life.

    Reply
  9. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    Sigh….and here I go already…going back on what I said about ignoring you.

    Look…

    I don’t believe that is what she said….I believe she said, “If your capable of that type of behavior without realizing what you are doing, then yeah, you should get locked up for life.

    Violent retardation should not be tolerated. ”

    I don’t think that includes EVERY aspie. I think you are overly sensitive. I believe she meant people that showed that they could kill or react very violently. I would go so far as to say I agree with her…I think that ANY person regardless of their mental capacity that demonstrates that they can and will kill should be put away from the rest of us.

    I can also guarantee that you would not have been afraid to go to school because of people like me…GUARANTEE IT!!! I got along with pretty much everyone EXCEPT the bullies. EVERYONE!

    One of my best friends was bullied worse than anyother kid in school because of the fact that he was:

    #1 Small…even smaller than me

    #2 Different…he wore his hair very very long (when it wasn’t fashionable and he was very unathletic and very intellectual.

    When we were in 10th grade, he got into an arguement with a senior over some stupid something in class (probably religion as he was an athiest in a southern bible belt town) and after class, this big brave senior punched his lights out while my friend had his hands in his pockets. He was humiliated, embarrassed, and given the opportunity and in a different time (such as now) probably would have been a PRIME candidate for what takes place on a regular basis in today’s schools. I left school with him and took him home and cleaned him up and talked about what had happened. I then laid it out for him…he could either stand up for himself, or he could probably prepare himself for another 2 years of the crap. We then did what anyother NORMAL 10th grade, undersized kids would do…we exacted our revenge upon the perp (no innocents…how fantastic is that?) and had a “camp out.” Went to the guy’s house late late late and pretty much demolished his prize Camaro.

    I am small now…not as small as I was then…so you can imagine that I was about the smallest guy in my class with the execption of my friend. Regardless…I am and always have been pretty athletic and deceptively strong for my size and played football. At practice soon after, I laid the pussy piece of shit senior out on a play and while laying on top of him at the bottom of a pile, whispered to him that WE had done that to his car, and if he EVER felt the need to play frog, I was more than willing to jump and I would embarrass him in front of his upper classmen friends by beating the shit out of him until someone pulled me off and I wouldn’t have my hands in my pockets. He must have believed me because I never heard boo after that. He left my friend alone too.

    My friend ended up in fine shape after high school. He actually teaches at a university these days. His “rotten years of school” are just that….rotten years of school that are LONG behind him and no longer significant. Though he has thanked me for helping him and taking up for him. He also said that he WISHED he had done it himself.

    People LET the past haunt them…they LET it. Do YOU get that? Your past is this…memories. What are memories? Just that..memories. Memories CANNOT hurt you..anymore than being called retarded…an idiot…or a coward. They can if you LET them…but all in all…they are harmless. They CAN’T hurt you…not unless you let them. Most people use their past as a learning tool….others dwell and make themselves miserable with them and carry them forever. That is not a good thing and makes for a long long miserable life.

    Point is…at some point YOU have to stand up for yourself. NO ONE makes you a victim in most cases…unless you let them.

    You called the girl above a coward. A coward is someone who refuses to stand up for themselves or someone else because of fear. Threatening to “fill her inbox with hatemail”….hmmmmmmm I guess I don’t even have to tell you what I think of that. No…not the dreaded hatemail. Come on…grow up.

    You strike me as someone who is sincere and passionate about what you believe…it isn’t what I believe…but such is life. You also strike me as being somewhat immature. You resort to name calling when someone doesn’t agree with your view of the world. That’s life also. I too will resort to name calling…but only when someone espouses an absurd point of view that someone who murders innocent people is somehow a saint or a hero. Get used to it. With your views, I can guarantee that you are going to come across A LOT more people that disagree with your views than agree with them.

    Now I have plainly ( I hope) explained to you who I am an where I am coming from. You can still consider me a “retard”, an “idiot”, or a “coward” because I honestly don’t care. I KNOW who and what I am and I am (and have always) been comfortable with it.

    I honestly hope you find peace from your memories and will realize that that part of your life is over…long gone. Stop carrying the baggage. Get on with you life and live it instead of re-living what happened back then (however ling ago “back then” was). If you don’t, You will be one miserable son of a bitch until the day you die…and life is WAY too short to be miserable over shit that happened back in high school.

    Just a little friendly advice from ZappaCrappa : )

    Reply
  10. starviego Avatar
    starviego

    Dragon,

    I keep hearing that Ogdren was on medication for his Aspergers. Do you know what drug he might have been taking for his condition?
    (The methyphenidate I already know about.)

    Reply
  11. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    No clue right now but I have also heard about something for depression and we all know what that most likely means. One of my associates is contacting his father tomarrow (by email it sounds like, he is a university professor after all) so ask me in a few days.

    Reply
  12. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Most aspies were capable of these things when they were younger. Granted they didn’t all do them but that is neither here nor there now is it. More directly she insulted me in that I was capable of doing these things when I was younger. I really don’t think your impulse control at the age of 16 should effect your life outlook at 34.

    2nd, now you seem to condone bullying, you certianly don’t go against it, nor do you stick up for the people that were driven to horrible acts by it. You seem to think its just something we should get over… let me tell you something… it is not that easy.

    Imagine being 20 and having no memories at all that you should have from your childhood because of the bullies control over the school and of you. Does that sound like something you can get over in a few months, not having real memories? Probably not… Seriously my only good (as in I can remember it well) from before I was 10 is coming home to find out my cousins had died in a plane crash. From that point I can remember fights and insults more then anything else… my family doesn’t help that much either.

    Now I know it sounds like I am looking for a pity party but I really am not. I am just tired of people seeing bullying as something light and innocent. It drives more kids to kill themselves then anything else. Sadly as with any genocide no one cares until it hits them.

    Also let me tell you, bullies don’t just go away after high school. They are still around me every day in college, they are just smarter about doing it. Listen just stop and think about the logistics behind sentencing kids to life in prision without even trying to rehabilitate them because of trama they recieved.

    Reply
  13. starviego Avatar
    starviego

    For what its worth, William Freund’s deadly rampage in his Southern California neighborhood a year and a half ago was also blamed on his Aspergers, though there was a lot of speculation that his medication may have been the cause:

    “William Freund’s deadly rampage may have been triggered by an antipsychotic medication that he was reportedly taking, Geodon (generic name ziprasidone)”

    “In the (web)messages, …. he said his health was deteriorating because of a new medication. “I’m not getting any better and nobody can figure out what it is.” He said he wanted his parents to switch doctors ….

    Tellingly, the relatives of Freund’s dead victims are suing everybody in sight, but not the drug makers:

    https://thetrenchcoat.com/categories/27-William-Freund

    It has been said that some on Geodon lose the ability to differentiate a conscious awake state from the sleep/dream state. So when Ogdren had his Tommy Versetti moment, he might have been stuck in a walking REM state.

    I’m not trying to make excuses for the kid, just speculating on the reasons.

    Reply
  14. Dana Avatar
    Dana

    Wow. I can’t believe what I said above hurt your feelings so much. You are very sensitive.
    But I still stand by what I said. Saying that people who are incapable of comprehending their violent actions should be free is like saying we should let every inmate out of prison because they don’t know what they are doing, so let’s just sympathize with them because they are retards.
    It would be mass chaos, and even though I like chaos from time to time, I know the majority of people would not agree.

    And I don’t think i’m going to give you my e-mail address. Not because i’m a coward, but because your asperger friends might get so enraged with what I said that they might find out where I live and murder me without even knowing it.

    Reply
  15. g Avatar
    g

    1. you don’t take medicine for Asperger’s. You take meds for co-existing conditions. Like depression, anxiety.
    2. Aspies are usually very, very literal. The kid said “I did it”, meaning he did it. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do it in self-defense, or that it was an accident, or that he planned it out for days and days. It literally meant *he did it*.

    There is alot of misinformation about Asperger’s. The local media has been trying to play up a connection to something more sinister, when there is nothing there. They took statements from shell-shocked teenagers (highly emotional teens are probably not the most credible sources!).

    It sounded to me like some of these same kids picked on the boy. He had some weird fixations (aspie trait). He didn’t know it was inappropriate to keep asking a girl out after she said no several times (aspie trait). He didn’t have any friends (aspie side-effect).

    Why didn’t the media try to find out how Aspie kids act, and apply that to the events that took place?
    This is a truly tragic situation…two families totally ruined. The only good that could come out of it is for the public to become more educated about autism spectrum disorders, but the media doesn’t seem to want to go that route. Not good for ratings, or maybe it’s too much work for them.

    Reply
  16. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Ah so you decide to offend me again not realizing that there are many good computer hacking aspies out there that could very easily find your ISP address out anyway ).

    We are also talking about a person that can be rehabilitated given time, remember most aspies lose control alot. We are doing a poll on WrongPlanet and I believe there has yet to be anyone there who has said they have never had a breakdown. Are all of us capable of killing… yes probably given the right situations (like this boy got), does that mean we will all kill obviously not. And just so you know eventually everyone in jail on an EED defense (like I bet this boy will use) will be out of jail eventually barring death abnormally short after arrival.

    Reply
  17. Trench Avatar
    Trench

    And just so you know eventually everyone in jail on an EED defense (like I bet this boy will use) will be out of jail eventually barring death abnormally short after arrival.

    There’s a comforting thought.

    That’s sarcasm by the way.

    Reply
  18. Dana Avatar
    Dana

    I can’t believe your threatening to hack into my information over some comment I made.
    That’s not very good promotion for asperger’s behavour.

    And I could really care less that your EED defense buddies will be out of jail soon. I’m really not that passionate about the situation, I was only stating my opinion.

    Reply
  19. Erika Avatar
    Erika

    Is there something wrong with you? Using the word “retard” – have you learned anything about political correctness? That is like using the “N” word! Autism is different than insanity. And Autistics are targets, in schools. School districts say they have “appropriate programs” for these children so they can get state and federal aid for teaching them. It all comes down to money!!!! What are parents supposed to do, lock their children up at the age of 2 – when they are given this diagnosis? Because you think so? Hope you never have to deal with this as a parent. I have a few choice words for you! :'(

    Reply
  20. Erika Avatar
    Erika

    It’s too much work for them, as it seems to be too much work for everyone else. It’s such a complex disorder no one can understand it – not even the “so called professionals”. All I know is that everyone is blaming hima and the parents. First of all he doesn’t know any better, and second the parents can only get the help for him that society allows – if you don’t have the right HMO, your screwed! And as I said before the school get’s ALOT of money for keeping these kids in there districts. It’s okay to come up with a classroom, put a kid in there and say your teaching him. Now maybe they’ll have to prove it! They are the ones yelling “INCLUSION” – NOT the parents! I’ve been fighting for years to have my son removed from the school district – that dose not give a shit about him or any other kid! :'(

    Reply
  21. Trench Avatar
    Trench

    All I know is that everyone is blaming hima and the parents.

    He stabbed a kid to death and his parents let him have the murder weapon.It’s pretty clear to me where the blame should be laid.

    And with all due respect Erika the Odgren’s may not be in the same situation as you and your child. His father is a professor and his mother a health care professional. It doesn’t seem like they’re hurting for money.

    Reply
  22. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Erica, email me sometime I might be able to help out. fnofsports@hotmail.com

    Reply
  23. Rafa Avatar
    Rafa

    What’s retarded is to call an Aspie retarded.

    You obviously don’t know much about the disorder, because they’re usually very very intelligent people…..and even my 7 year old Aspie son knows that the contraction of “you” and “are” is “you’re”, not “your” as you spelled it.

    Reply

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