Thomas White to be tried as an adult

Seventh-grader to stand trial as adult in middle school incident:

Thomas White will be tried as an adult. The 13-year-old who fired a MAC-90 assault rifle inside of Memorial Middle School in Joplin, Missouri has been certified by Jasper County Circuit Court Judge William Crawford to stand trial as an adult.

Crawford said he based his decision on the seriousness of the offense and the apparent violent nature of the boy’s actions.

Juvenile officer April Foulkes testified Wednesday that she recommended certification of White to stand trial as an adult because if he was tried in juvenile court, he could be released within six months to a year. She said if he was prosecuted as an adult and convicted, White could be sentenced to a dual-jurisdiction program of the state and placed at a secure-care center in Montgomery City until he turns 18.

Now let’s hear from the “He’s old enough to fire a gun but not old enough to go to prison” crowd…

White’s lawyer, Chuck Lonardo, argued at the hearing that the boy is too young to be certified for trial as an adult. He said while treatment of the boy is needed, such treatment could best be accomplished by adjudicating him as a juvenile.

He also said the court could order that White be kept in custody until he turned 18.

Lonardo called clinical psychologist Kevin Whisman to testify about a psychological evaluation of the boy that he conducted after the incident. Whisman said in the weeks leading up to the shooting, White was feeling increased pressure to improve his grades, mostly coming from his father, who the boy said had threatened to beat him with a belt if his grades did not improve.

As we know now the father is no prize either but suck it up, kid. My dad threatened me with a belt all the time and I was bullied too. But just because your dad and other kids at school are assclowns it’s no reason to kill other people. Now you’ve basically thrown your life away and you must be held responsible for your actions.

Comments

51 responses to “Thomas White to be tried as an adult”

  1. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Yes now occurding to our courts a 13 year old with developmental delays is an adult (just so you know processing wise, at least occurding to the one that knows him best, he is mentally retarded, or more accurately the equivenelant of.)

    I love the way you worded the part in between, I fired a gun off the first time when I was 9 or 10 (and my bro who also shot a smaller gun that day must have been 6 or 7), granted I just shot it at cans but that was still retarded wording.

    But what takes the cake is you all seem to think this kid is a stone cold killer but heres some words that were spoken about him by the one that knows him best, “He also told me he wants to become a counselor because he feels bad when he hears the other little kids crying at night.” Sure sounds like one to me.

    Just curious, do you believe it is okay to have sex with a 13 year old. Sorry if I have asked you this before but it seems to me that if they are old enough to fully understand murder they are old enough to fully understand sex after all.

    One last thing, the kid never wanted to kill anyone, he expected to be able to scare people then make a clean get away, he didn’t pull the trigger at anyone until it was clear that wasn’t going to happen. Stupid plan yes, childish plan defientally.

  2. Trench Avatar

    Just curious, do you believe it is okay to have sex with a 13 year old. Sorry if I have asked you this before but it seems to me that if they are old enough to fully understand murder they are old enough to fully understand sex after all.

    That’s such a dumbass question it’s hardly worth responding to. But since you asked. No I don’t think it’s okay to have sex with a 13-year-old. And if a 13-year-old molested somebody younger than him I’d want him locked up for it too.

    Was the first gun you fired at 9 a MAC-90 assault rifle?

    One last thing, the kid never wanted to kill anyone, he expected to be able to scare people then make a clean get away

    Then why was the gun loaded?

  3. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    So bascally you think a 13 year old is a kid in some ways and an adult in others??? Or understands the consequences of murder better then sex???

    And nope never fired a MAC-90 just some pistols and shotguns, though they probably could have done some serious damage anyway.

    The gun was loaded to scare people, the first and only thing he shot was the ceiling, once again it was a stupid childish plan, remember in several ways he is severally delayed. You really do need to pay more attention to these articles. But since you don’t don’t you think at any time he could have tried to shoot people and not the ceiling, he didn’t even pull the trigger of the gun at someone until his plan had backfired, doesn’t that show he didn’t go in with the intent to kill.

  4. Trench Avatar

    The fact that he brought a loaded assault weapon to school shows intent to kill. Murder is a lot more simple than sex. Basically it’s wrong to murder someone. End of story.

  5. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Oh PS it sounds like he will probably get out at 18 with a clean record (hopefully) much to your displeasure. They plan to give him a blended sentence most likely (http://www.joplindaily.com/articles/2006/12/07/news/c01whitehearing.txt) meaning that he could get out at the age of 18 with good behavior and proper treatment, which so far he has been good with. Though I am not quite sure about the clean record part it is a victory to see that he will still most likely be released between 18-21.

  6. Trench Avatar

    From the same article…

    She said, during interviews, White appeared to have a “fascination” with “adult” violence because he played mature, adult rated war games (violent video games). She said White also indicated he liked to throw gunpowder into an open fire.

    “Kids play with matches,” she said. “I don’t find a fascination with gun powder to be something boys do.”

    Foulks also testified that White “joked” with friends about bringing a gun to school as much as two years before the incident. She said the evidence indicates White “planned” the event at Memorial Middle School at least a week before he brought the gun to school.

    Don’t hold your breath on that one.

  7. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    What does his childish feelings have to do with him getting released at 18??? In the very same article it sounded like she said she was for him getting released at 18 and as far as I can tell all adult sentencing for kids in Missouri is done that way. Both her and his shrink felt he would be ready to be released some day and his shrink said he didn’t pose a huge threat to soceity even now. I think you just want to see this boy hang.

    Now if you are trying to say he wont be cureable only time will tell there but supposedly Missouri is known for having a great track record there and I don’t really think once he is out of the hostilites of school these feelings of his will come back.

  8. Disagree Avatar
    Disagree

    WHya re you willing to throw all of these kids away Trench?? Should he be punished. Yes, but in a juvenile facility where he can get help for his mental problems and help on becoming a productive member of society. Because with the charges he’s facing, even if he goes to an adult prison, he’ll be getting out. I’d rather it be some place where he can get help, because in the end while he might reoffend either way, adult prison will almost ensure that he does.

    P.S. I go on a case to case basis. While I don’t feel this kid should be in adult court, Eric Schorling did. Some of these cases I’ll agree with you on, others I won’t.

  9. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    I don’t think he will be in an adult prision for long. Right now they have him totally seperated from the adult population (including exercise and meal times I think) and the one that knows him best told me that they are sending him to a “boys camp” soon. So basically if he keeps his head on straight he will never have to see the inside of an adult jail cell again :). Though Trench still refuses to admit in this case we win!

  10. Trench Avatar

    So basically if he keeps his head on straight he will never have to see the inside of an adult jail cell again 🙂

    That’s a mighty big “if”.

  11. Someguy Avatar
    Someguy

    hey all miss me?

    am i seeing things or is this another kid saying their screwed up in the head because of spankings?

    I got spanked too and i came out just fine maybe better because of it. This kid just need to get over it.(im just going over the part about hime blaming his issues on spankings so dont go after me on the legal issues)

  12. Trench Avatar

    Welcome back SG. :mrgreen:

  13. Someguy Avatar
    Someguy

    By the way if he was jewish he’d be a man in the eyes of their traditions lol

  14. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    The more and more I hear about the kid the more and more he sounds autistic (more likely asperger’s but then again I wouldn’t think most people would know that much about it.)

    So his abnormal mind comes up with the perfect plan as he sees it to shoot the gun once in school and leave. He figures at most he will get expelled and won’t have to worry about his grades anymore…

    His plans all break down as he didn’t stop to think about how others would react to his shooting the gun (theory of the mind and all of that). As he is being escorted out he sees his plan falling apart and as he can’t think that quick on his feet he pulls the gun on his principal and the rest is history.
    Ender

    PS Trench I don’t think it is that big of an if. He has never been in trouble before this and now he has something to live for. They are going to plead him out anyway, probably for the min of 5 years (doesn’t make sense to waste taxpayers money when chances are he will only serve 3 years, its 17 that he can get out not 18 and his bday is x-mas eve.)

  15. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    PS The one who knows him 2nd best (his sister) also said Asperger’s sounds exactally like him. Do you really want an autistic kid getting a huge sentence, sounds like the cataylst that could be needed for change that you wouldn’t like that much.

  16. starviego Avatar

    Was there any evidence that the kid was on medication?

    William Freund, 19, who went on a rampage in his southern California neighborhood back on 10-30-05, killing two before committing suicide, also claimed to be a victim of Aspergers.

    Though some said his rampage may have been triggered by an antipsychotic medication that he was reportedly taking, Geodon (generic name ziprasidone).

  17. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    I asked her, she didn’t really answer, though that could have been because it was one of many things I had asked her.

    And I go to wrongplanet so I am well versed on William, I don’t think this is the same case at all. This kid never wanted to kill anyone William did, he was just childish and came up with a stupid stupid childish plan.

  18. starviego Avatar

    Was this kid ever the subject of psychological/mental “treatment” before the shooting? A very high proportion of these “Columbine-clients” have had experience with shrinks though that fact is often hushed-up afterwards.

    ————-
    “In the messages, …. he said his health was deteriorating because of a new medication. “I’m not getting any better and nobody can figure out what it is.” He said he wanted his parents to switch doctors ….”
    –William Freund

  19. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Once again no clue and I am not inclined to ask.

  20. LordRainer Avatar
    LordRainer

    Frankly it would bother me alot more to see a juvenile be locked away for life, end-of-story, than a juvenile walking free after killing anybody.

    IMO, the highest possible prison sentence that kids should get is Life with possibility of parole, not without.

  21. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Not that it is really relavent to this case (he didn’t kill anyone) but first you support a kid killing himself and now you don’t want to see that same kid locked away for life… I don’t get it.

  22. Trench Avatar

    Edgar is crazy. Don’t pay attention to him. He’s on permanent ban but keeps slipping through every once in a while.

  23. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Well at least you have stopped saying he attempted to fire it at somebody despite no evidence being for or against it. You do realize he will most likely still get dual juristiction?

  24. BelchSpeak Avatar

    I like this trend.

  25. BelchSpeak Avatar

    Bryan, the news writer says that Tommy White tried to shoot the prinicpal “several times.”

    Isn’t that attempted murder? Punk kid is going away for years.

  26. Trench Avatar

    Since you brought it up…

    Authorities said the boy tried to fire the gun at the principal several times, but it jammed.

    And I don’t care if he has quad jurisdiction. As long as he’s behind some form of bars for a long time.

  27. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Look up the law on dual juristiction dumbass.

  28. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Well I suppose if you consider 4 years a long time, though he most likely would have gotten that either way. Now he is just an undersized kid with more dangerous criminals roming around. And fyi the police have no evidence that he tried to fire the gun other then the principals initial impressions (later recanted) that he did.

  29. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    FYI, this trend isn’t working, we have harsher punishments then just about every European country, yet worse problems with crime, in particular juvenile crime. Can you explain this?

  30. BelchSpeak Avatar

    Can’t. Still too busy googling bedwetters, fake autism, and gay mentoring.

  31. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Lol, I must be pretty good at faking it if I can convince people that have worked with asperger’s for years. And fyi the average pedophile is still a straight middle aged male like yourself.

  32. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    One last thing, I once got a letter (more of a journal really) from this punk kid. I have kept it a secret for now but I think now is the time to type it all out. Just a little bit for now though as I only have 5 minutes until my break ends.

    “When this first happened, I didn’t think about the trouble had cause (his mistake) not only to myself but more importantly to the community. The worst part is I tried to put the blame on the school district. Now I realize not one kid has snapped before me. Not one! This is the most stupid think a person can do and it takes a really stupid person to do it.

    As I look back I realize how easy I had it. Just stay out of trouble and get through school and it would all be ok. I could have made it through school. I wouldn’t have had this in my way. And I wouldn’t have to stay thirteen forever. Now when I get a parking ticket or some other petty little crime. This will be on my record. And all I wanted is a change for my life.”

    Thats everything but the first paragraph which I will type out later. Really sounds like a punk kid to me too.

  33. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    P.S. Just in case you were wondering this was written right before his court appearence I believe.

  34. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Comeon I welcome any and all comments.

  35. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    As far as I know, you are the only Canadian here so maybe you should explain your country’s juvenille crime problem as I doubt too many Americans really care about what’s going on in Canada -)

  36. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Ummm I am in Texas right now… you never ever call someone in Texas a Canadian… do you want to get shot boy?

  37. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Point taken, but you still can’t call him some punk kid if he doesn’t act one bit like one 99.99999999999999% of the time. And I am just curious, a lot of your basis for wanting him tried as an adult and to spend a lot of time in jail seems to be that he could have hurt or killed someone. Does that mean you want every last person ever charged with DUI or even drug possession to spend that much time in jail? They could easily have hurt someone too.

  38. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    My mistake…I could SWEAR that I read in one of your earlier posts that you were from Canada. And just being in Texas doesn’t make you a “Texan” by any stretch of the imagination. Just as “being” in America” doesn’t make you an American. So just where do you call “home” ???? Please say Canada…I shudder to think you are an American :-O

  39. BelchSpeak Avatar

    Ah, so Bryan was baiting us. He is the master baiter.

    DUI and drug possession is not the same as attempted murder at a public school, which the last I checked, was supposed to be a haven of learning and peace for children to become educated adults.

    For you, I’m sure its a buffet of young vulnerable nubile bodies in need of “mentorin” from a pee-stained autism faker, but seriously, for the rest of us, its supposed to be a safe place.

  40. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Ummm, you are quite likely to kill someone if you are DUI, just like you are quite likely to kill someone if you bring a gun to school (which is all that you have any proof, other then a recanted accusation, that he tried to do.)

    Though seriously I must wonder, what is your obsession with bedwetting. And if I am an autism faker, how good must I do it to fake people that have been working with autism longer then I have been alive.

  41. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    Nope, American born and raised. Only been outside the country 3 times and never to Canada (or an English speaking country for that matter.) I hope that makes your day.

  42. BelchSpeak Avatar

    Does your fake autism cause you to start every written sentence with “duh ummmmmm?”

    DUI is not the same as bringing a gun to school Bryan. I know your libtarded mind has a problem with morality cause to you everything is morally equivalent. You think its worse to tease a classmate than to abort a baby. You think bringing a gun to school is the same as running a stoplight. With a deeply flawed sense of morality, you will go nowhere in life worth bragging about.

    Speaking of bragging, the last we left off, you were trying to get into the pants of some unlucky camp counselor boy/girl. How’d that go? Shot down again? You must have started talking to him/her and they lost interest. Too bad. I’d suggest getting a prostitute, but they charge double for a “pityfuck.”

  43. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    LOL…thanks Enders. You have actually made me chuckle a few times in this thread…and not at you but with you. How’s that for honesty? You know…I just don’t get it. Sometimes when you post (as in the last couple of replies to me) you seem seem to have a good sense of humor. i.e. “you never ever call someone in Texas a Canadian… do you want to get shot boy?” and also….”I hope that makes your day.” Those made me laugh and made me feel like I could actually sit down and have a beer with you. Then at other times….oh well. I’m sure I come across as someone you wouldn’t want to spend more than 30 seconds with at times too.

    Anyway…I guess I can now answer your question that started this little side conversation….I mainly blame parenting (or lack of)in most cases.

  44. Endersdragon Avatar
    Endersdragon

    I voted for Bush in 2004 and I am not sure yet who I will vote for in 2008… so in other words I am not liberal, though I am sure your neocontarded mind thinks its okay to execute 5 year olds but not to use stem cells that otherwise go in the trash. Though how do you compare running a stoplight with DUI, do you even know what DUI means? Right now I am working with kids, that you would most likely throw away, that is something to brag about. And no unlike you I don’t try to get in their pants.

  45. ZappaCrappa Avatar
    ZappaCrappa

    Hmmmmmm….what prompted you to vote for George? His open acceptance of your chosen lifestyle or his stance on crime that mirrors your own. Even I didn’t vote for Georgie boy the second time around. I am HIGHLY suspicious of that claim.

  46. starviego Avatar

    The kid was heard to utter twice the words “please don’t make me do this” which to me sounds like he was being mind-controlled. Too many of the surviving school shooters have indicated they went on shooting sprees merely to still the insistent voices in their heads commanding them to kill.

  47. BelchSpeak Avatar

    If that’s the case, they are pointing the guns in the wrong direction.

    And I don’t believe you that any of the surviving school shooters “heard voices.” Cite your sources, Star.

    And then show me where any shooter was found to be clinically insane, esp. schizophrenic.

  48. starviego Avatar

    Wayne Lo, 18, Simon’s Rock College, Great Barrington, Massachusetts, 12-16-92 2 dead, 4 wounded

    –…. he said [b]the command to kill[/b] was a feeling. “It’s not visual. It’s not auditory,” he said. “It’s just, you realize it.”
    — the message to kill came…. out of nowhere.
    –He remains convinced, he said, that [u]it was something outside of himself that gave him a message to do what he did[/u]. Perhaps, he said in answer to a question, it was a supernatural or satanic force.

    ————-

    Luke Woodham, 16, and Grant Boyette, 19, Pearl, MS, Pearl H.S., 10-1-97 2 dead, 7 wounded

    -Woodham heard “an older teenager’s [b]voice in his head[/b].” “…(I) fought with myself because I didn’t want to do any of it.”

    ————

    Andrew Wurst 14, Edinborough, PA, 4-24-98 Parker Middle School(at off-campus school dance) 1 dead, 3 wounded

    …..As the police got to know more about Andrew’s friends, they began to wonder if one of them was a ‘[b]puppet master[/b]’ who may have manipulated Andrew into using the gun or at least encouraged him.”
    –“…Andrew had mentioned in a letter to a friend that ‘[b]the voices are coming again[/b].’ Other [u]people are programmed to act and say[/u] what the government, mad scientists, or a psycho wants them to say.”

    ————

    Kip Kinkel, Springfield, OR, Thurston High School, 5-22-98, 1 dead, 7 seriously wounded

    As to why he went on his rampage, Kip proclaimed, “my head kept telling me I had no other choice…. .”

    “I talked to [b]the voices[/b]. I said “I don’t want to do this.” ”

    The voices than cut a deal with Kip’s suicidal aspirations. He could be free of them at last if he committed certain homicidal acts. Kip reported that after [u]hearing the voices say hundreds of times[/u], “You have to go to school! Kill everybody!” he begged them to “Promise me you’ll let me kill myself after…” The voices assured him that he could do so……

    ———

    Columbine massacre, 4-20-99

    A fellow student(Dustin Harrison) had Eric Harris in his psychology class: “He just basicially said that he was having trouble with this [u]recurring dream[/u]–that he woke up one morning and came into the school, and he just started shooting students and teachers as they came by, and then he said it always ended up….ended with him just blowing the school up.

    ————

    5-3-99
    Southcoast Early Childhood Learning Center, Costa Mesa, California, Steven Allen Abrams, 39 Killed two toddlers and seriously injured several more when he drove his car at high speed onto the school playground.

    –A man accused of intentionally plowing his car into a Costa Mesa preschool playground conceived the attack years in advance, hoping that killing “innocent” children would [u]halt the voices[/u] he claims the government was beaming into his brain…

    –Abrams began to believe that “somebody had brain wave technology that could [b]control somebody’s thoughts and behavior[/b],”

    –He believed government agencies had devised machines ..that “may even [b]insert thoughts of killing[/b]”

    ————

    Jeff Weise, Red Lake HS, 3-21-05
    Web postings:

    “Lately I’ve been having some really [b]strange dreams[/b], they seem very realistic and filled with colour and sounds, ….a few night’s ago I had this dream where I saw this very evil, very creepy canine’s face coming toward’s me, and [u]I heard someone say “shoot![/u],” either way everything went black and I could feel my whole body jerking and shaking, and while this was happening I could hear very loud and very distinct gunshot’s, mostly machine gun fire.. .”

  49. BelchSpeak Avatar

    I didn’t say to show me sources where killers pretended to be insane in order to beat a murder rap.

    *Show me a case where someone was found to be insane by the court.*

  50. starviego Avatar

    Of all the juvenile random rage school shootings I have studied, I can think of one that was declared legally insane and confined to a mental institution(though I can’t remember the name). I agree that most of the school shooters are not clinically insane(though many seem to have behavior disorders, and have been ‘treated’at some point).

    But I wouldn’t automatically discount the statements made by the defendents. Most of them are too young and unsophisticated to fake it any trained psychiatrist would see through their act in a New York minute. So maybe those voices are coming from outside their skull, not inside.

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